Curse

Alleji · Dec 26, 2012, 12:29 PM // 12:29

I frequently think about checking out GW1 again, but then I remember that I really liked the PvP and that's dead. You can just go back to PvE and play it whenever, but you kinda need a certain volume of players for PvP... /sadface

I think GW2 did a lot of things well in its own right, but the basic gameplay from GW1 isn't there. The skills and classes and their interaction in GW1 were infinitely more fun than GW2 or any other RPG/MMO for that matter.

Sofonisba · Dec 26, 2012, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Alleji, you're right about that. However, in the past few days I've noticed an uptick in the frequency of the announcements of teams winning a battle in the Hall of Heroes. Maybe that's where the renaissance will start...

Phineas · Dec 31, 2012, 04:39 PM // 16:39

I'm wondering why I spent money on gw2 as well... My initial distaste at the introduction of firearms and the absence of a healer class was eventually put to one side and I took a peek, but it really does not compare to GW1 in terms of game-play. Yes, it's pretty, but in PvE (where I live) there does not seem to be the same depth in terms of strategy that is required in GW1. Encounters seem tedious if solo, or stupid if zerged.

So I'm also back here, pushing my chars through all campaigns but not giving a hoot about HoM.

I do really miss 600/smite though

projectmercy · Dec 31, 2012, 05:14 PM // 17:14

I haven't played GW2 much, but I think it's unfair to compare a 7 year old game to a 6 month old game. Most of the things people are referring to didn't exist in stock GW, and the skills that did exist didn't seem all that balanced. I don't disagree that the PvP has some issues.

I personally hate healer classes in online games. It's a terrible concept, because there's no way to balance it to be fair. Either the healer class is a tank/mage, in which case they're unkillable, or they're made to be fragile or interrupted, in which case they have to be strong enough that they and their guardians are better than the same number of guardians, which means that they're required, which means that either you balance all classes to be required (which is basically impossible) or you have a single class full of entitlement. So personally, I'm glad for many of the changes. I think given time it will also be a good game, just different.

Clearly, some people are going to like GW1. I'm going to bet that for a lot of you this was your first MMO, and as such it's unlikely anything else will ever compare. That's the issue with WoW. It brought so many people to the MMO table, it's hard for people to get over that. For those of us that started in MUDs and then moved to EQ, it's easier to contrast the growth of the genre.

Razer.blue · Dec 31, 2012, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectmercy

I haven't played GW2 much, but I think it's unfair to compare a 7 year old game to a 6 month old game. Most of the things people are referring to didn't exist in stock GW, and the skills that did exist didn't seem all that balanced. I don't disagree that the PvP has some issues.

I played GW since the release back in 2005 and in my honest opinion the 2005/2006 era was great. PvE content was fun and required teamplay/good builds to succeed. It was a real challenge back then. Also, PvP worked extremelly well already.

Over the years Guild Wars got a lot of new skills due to the expansions pack and one might wonder if the amount of skills got perhaps a bit out of control but the system Guild Wars 1 uses has certainly more depth compared to GW2. Imo, GW2 is extremely casual and brainless.

It is actually fair to compair both games since GWII the follow up of Guild Wars 1, regardless if it's a total different game or not (NC shouldn't have leeched the name ''Guild Wars'' for this game, but that's another discussion)

I'm not saying GW2 is a bad game but it is has a long, long way to go (with some massive gameplay changing updates).

DiogoSilva · Jan 02, 2013, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Character building and party strategy is deeper in GW1 than in GW2 at the moment, but for most of the time, GW1's combat itself is "brainless" outside of pvp, with 7 heroes doing the job for you and most builds giving you success for pressing 1234. GW1's pve combat depth comes almost entirely from pre-tactics and pre-building, then it takes you automaticall like a train. GW2's combat demands more skill, even if it's lacking in pre-building/ party strategy.

Schmerdro · Jan 03, 2013, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectmercy

I think it's unfair to compare a 7 year old game to a 6 month old game

The only reason to inhibit competition is if you are afraid of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectmercy

I personally hate healer classes in online games. It's a terrible concept, because there's no way to balance it to be fair.

In GW, Monks are generally countered by Necromancer or Mesmer spells (or even physical interrupts). I don't see how they are unbalanced. In fact, I think that's what makes GW so awesome. If you don't bring the right counters then you lose. It doesn't just make the healers important, it makes strategy important. That's the whole point to a team-based RPG.

If you really want to perfectly balance all the classes then you have to make them pretty much all the same, which would make the game boring. Unfortunately, GW 2 seems to be headed in this direction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectmercy

Clearly, some people are going to like GW1. I'm going to bet that for a lot of you this was your first MMO

Can you name another online RPG that is even remotely similar to GW? There was a whole thread about this but nobody was able to find even one game. GW is a truly unique game and that is why people like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

GW1's combat itself is "brainless" outside of pvp, with 7 heroes doing the job for you and most builds giving you success for pressing 1234

If that was true, then nobody would have ever asked for strategic help on any of the GW forums or on the wiki "Discussion" pages. I think you're either over-simplifying things or maybe you've never tried some of the more difficult content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

GW1's pve combat depth comes almost entirely from pre-tactics and pre-building

Imo, GW 2 has far more pre-combat requirements because the combat in GW 2 is entirely based on level and armor/weapon stats. Obviously both games require certain strategies to be utilized, just like any other team-based RPG, but I found GW 2 to be heavily based on grind.

Edit: Heh, I guess I should try to keep this post on-topic :P

So I bought a new character slot (this is my 12th) and, while I haven't been enjoying most of the NM missions, I've forgotten how much I enjoyed just messing around with my character's armor and using what looks good rather than what is more rare. I'm also excited to do WiK again, but I'm saving that until a friend of mine is ready for it too.

Iceblue · Jan 03, 2013, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

So I bought a new character slot (this is my 12th) and, while I haven't been enjoying most of the NM missions, I've forgotten how much I enjoyed just messing around with my character's armor and using what looks good rather than what is more rare. I'm also excited to do WiK again, but I'm saving that until a friend of mine is ready for it too.

I was also thinking of getting more character slots and costumes too... but I am reluctant to do so until NCSoft guarantees that they won't do to GW1 what they did to CoH. ArenaNet has said in the past that they won't do that to the players, but they might not have a choice. And I think NCSoft will dump GW1 pretty soon... their stock has fallen by 52% since August, even with the release of GW2 and the income that game sales and the gem sales are generating.

I log in, I play a little, but I'm slowly letting go....

Burning Freebies · Jan 03, 2013, 12:10 PM // 12:10

I came back in early October after giving up on the game in January. Its been a pretty great return, had a lot of unfinished business. I have since maxed Vanguard title, and got Legendary skill hunter. I have Gate of Madness left before I get Elonian Guardian, I'm 6 missions away after that from Legendary Guardian (all Tyrian). Im at 80% on two cartographers, and 95% on Elonian, so should do them soon. Ive also done half of Tyrian Vanquisher, and I'm on 650 Master of the North points. Also, r6 Asura and half way to maxing Party Animal/Drunkard titles.

Its been great to come back, well worth it in the end. But I think once I get Gwamm, it will make it more worthwhile to leave, knowing I've achieved everything worth achieving. With the game feeling pretty empty (I don't hang around LA much), its not worth it as much as it was before.

Schmerdro · Jan 03, 2013, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceblue

I am reluctant to do so until NCSoft guarantees that they won't do to GW1 what they did to CoH

I don't understand where this paranoia is coming from and why you think you're an expert in predicting the business decisions of a private company. But that's fairly irrelevant since you will never get a concrete answer to that question. Also, if GW does shut down, it would look bad on GW 2 since new players wouldn't be able to get the HoM rewards or experience the rich lore from the previous game.

I'm not criticising your decision to not buy things from the GW in-game store. I'm just perplexed by this belief that GW is going to shut down any second now. Some people seem to be a little too obsessed by things dying.

Sister Vickana · Jan 03, 2013, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Hi all, nice to see a good discussion going on here. While I am sure that we all have different opinions about our beloved GW, we also are open minded and thats what I like. I think as a matter of keeping it going that we take into account everything that Arenanet is doing and keeping the game up and running. sure it may be getting some age on it but look at how more active it's become. Let's see more well founded ideas and opinions, and see where it goes, thanks!!

Iceblue · Jan 03, 2013, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

I don't understand where this paranoia is coming from and why you think you're an expert in predicting the business decisions of a private company. But that's fairly irrelevant since you will never get a concrete answer to that question. Also, if GW does shut down, it would look bad on GW 2 since new players wouldn't be able to get the HoM rewards or experience the rich lore from the previous game.

I'm not criticising your decision to not buy things from the GW in-game store. I'm just perplexed by this belief that GW is going to shut down any second now. Some people seem to be a little too obsessed by things dying.

Actually I wasn't paranoid until I read this, so until we get a statement from NCSoft, I aint doing much... I'm not privy to what strategic decisions NCSoft has in mind, but if your stock plummeted by over 50% since you closed one profitable ($2 million plus a year) game and released another game that you sank a lot of money in but is losing players.... while holding onto another game that's not profitable (this is my guess that GW1 is not profitable) you might shut down the game that's not generating income.

Regarding the HOM they certainly can close it down. They never said the rewards would be available to get for forever... how many players are coming into GW1 just for the HOM rewards? I don't think many.

Razer.blue · Jan 03, 2013, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Personally I don't expect NCSoft to shut down the servers any time soon. However, I do agree that it would be nice if NCSoft could release an official statement about this.

Also, I don't know what's still possible for GW1. Would an expansion pack be still profitable (keeping in mind that a vast majority of GW1-players heavily critized GW2 and abandoned it, but still might be in for a new GW1 expansion)? Or perhaps they could change their model, to a free-to-play model like Runescape, free-zone and paid-zone (just an idea).

In my very honest opinion they cannot shut the servers down, even if they wanted to. GW2 was made possible because of GW1 and its successes. Let's face it, GW2 failed. Least they could do is keeping the servers up for some more years. I know this it's not a real legitimate argument, but still :P.

Burning Freebies · Jan 04, 2013, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razer.blue

Personally I don't expect NCSoft to shut down the servers any time soon. However, I do agree that it would be nice if NCSoft could release an official statement about this.

Also, I don't know what's still possible for GW1. Would an expansion pack be still profitable (keeping in mind that a vast majority of GW1-players heavily critized GW2 and abandoned it, but still might be in for a new GW1 expansion)? Or perhaps they could change their model, to a free-to-play model like Runescape, free-zone and paid-zone (just an idea).

In my very honest opinion they cannot shut the servers down, even if they wanted to. GW2 was made possible because of GW1 and its successes. Let's face it, GW2 failed. Least they could do is keeping the servers up for some more years. I know this it's not a real legitimate argument, but still :P.

Having not bought GW2, I had no idea people weren't receiving it very well, with some of you here branding it a "failure". Made me even more glad I didn't buy it-I have 2 laptops and I don't her 25GB of hard drive to download it.

And I agree with you about adding a new expansion. I'm not sure how they could change the story line. They would have to release another game itself, maybe an intermediate between GW1 or GW2 to have anything that works. I just don't see it happening.

Highlander Of Alba · Jan 04, 2013, 08:22 PM // 20:22

As you may have missed , they do have a link between gw1 & 2 called winds of change, its worth doing esp part2 as rewards are pretty good .

I have looked for you on gw1 as yet not seen you re your other post on some help for missions ect . Gmt also so ill keep looking when on to see if your in game

Edit ....saw you in gate of madness so just hit me up when you need a hand

Martin Firestorm · Jan 04, 2013, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razer.blue

(keeping in mind that a vast majority of GW1-players heavily critized GW2 and abandoned it

Where are you getting this? If it's just anecdotal, especially if the source is this GW1 forum, surely you know that is no basis for reaching this conclusion. I can tell you that many of my friends from GW1 are loving GW2 just like I am, and I know of none who feel otherwise. It's not perfect by a long shot, just like GW1, but it's a great game. Also, as was the case with GW1, you have to play GW2 for awhile before you really get the feel for it and it hooks you. Yes, you can go to GW2 guru and see plenty of griping, just like you always could here during GW1's heyday. That is a reflection of the slim fraction of gamers who bother with gaming forums, not the general level of satisfaction with the game.

Those of you have spent meanigful time playing GW2 and just don't like it, well it is different than GW1 and different strokes for different folks. But those of you who have steered clear for whatever reason, you're really doing yourself a disservice.

sun strike · Jan 05, 2013, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

Where are you getting this? If it's just anecdotal, especially if the source is this GW1 forum, surely you know that is no basis for reaching this conclusion. I can tell you that many of my friends from GW1 are loving GW2 just like I am, and I know of none who feel otherwise. It's not perfect by a long shot, just like GW1, but it's a great game. Also, as was the case with GW1, you have to play GW2 for awhile before you really get the feel for it and it hooks you. Yes, you can go to GW2 guru and see plenty of griping, just like you always could here during GW1's heyday. That is a reflection of the slim fraction of gamers who bother with gaming forums, not the general level of satisfaction with the game.

Those of you have spent meanigful time playing GW2 and just don't like it, well it is different than GW1 and different strokes for different folks. But those of you who have steered clear for whatever reason, you're really doing yourself a disservice.

forums are still quite accurate in presenting the percentage of players who dislike the game.

Quantum Duck · Jan 05, 2013, 09:45 AM // 09:45

...

No. Just no. That has never been true of any game or any forum, ever.

Sometimes a forum rage thread represents a reasonable percentage of the audience. It frequently does not, instead representing no more than a very passionate minority that posts the same things over and over again in an echo chamber until it becomes unquestionable truth among that minority. I've never seen a single thread that has more than a few dozen unique ragers, out of millions of customers.

Every MMO is full of forum ragers. Every single one. Doesn't mean it's failing, doesn't mean it isn't. Only the numbers will tell. By all measures, GW2 was a resounding success initially. I'll reserve judgement on whether it is succeeding or failing at keeping a reasonable percentage of players active once we have actual data available.

MaxBorken · Jan 05, 2013, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Gamers live in an isolated bubble. Success of a game isn't about the number who still play after a year or however long, it's about commercial revenue for the company who built it. If Anet make more money than they spent to make it, then it's a success. Everything else (like how many long term players, fixing glitches, patching and updates is all window-dressing.

Success from the point of view of the end user is WAY different from the point of view of the programmers and share holders.

It's all subjective, and always will be.

Max

Burning Freebies · Jan 06, 2013, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxBorken

Gamers live in an isolated bubble. Success of a game isn't about the number who still play after a year or however long, it's about commercial revenue for the company who built it. If Anet make more money than they spent to make it, then it's a success. Everything else (like how many long term players, fixing glitches, patching and updates is all window-dressing.

Success from the point of view of the end user is WAY different from the point of view of the programmers and share holders.

It's all subjective, and always will be.

Max

Technically-not true. Anet make money from selling the game. If people buy the game, then think "I don't like this, what a waste of money", they have wasted their money, and before you determine success based on revenue, you should subtract the figure of everyone who thinks the purchase was a bad idea. But you're right in saying it was probably a success for Anet.